Snakeoil Forums - Is Your System In Phase?

Is your system in phase? Do you have that feeling that for some unkown reason you just cannot get into the groove when listening to music with your hifi setup?

If yes, your system may be out of phase. To check, read this article here.

Here's an interesting article from Stereophile.

Just had my DAC serviced recently by my colleague to fix a fault, had a quick conversation with him along the way of some recordings I borrowed from him.

Woke up this morning, and suddenly the stereophile article and my comments clicked together. It literally dawned on me everything I said to him (e.g. very closed mic recording, sound stage constrained within the speakers, etc) are classical examples of an inverted phase system!!!

[Image: studying.gif]

So took a quick shot of the DAC and sure enough it was set to 2+ (Which is the wrong setting for mys setup). This switch was flicked as the DAC was moved and serviced.

Still managed to pick this up from a quick casual listen (Didn't really sit down and listen critically as I have a dreadful week!). Do I have bat ears or what? What! [Image: confused.gif]

Absolute phase is a thing I tell 'ya, although I can't prove it yet (The article was published in 1980 and we are still non the wiser 40 years later). Just make sure to set your system for Absolute Polarity (+). And don't think you'd fine with RCA (Single Ended gears) - some equipment, like Conrad Johnson has -ve polarity!

My DAC allows me to change the phase, what should I vote? :think:

(06-May-2019, 10:44 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: [ -> ]My DAC allows me to change the phase, what should I vote?

This is a physical test. You have to play the "speaker pop" test tone, if you see the speaker moving forward, then you are "in phase", but if you see the speaker sucked in, then your system's phase is inverted.

If your system is in phase (speaker drivers are moving forward when playing the speaker pop tone), play DSoTM and Amused To Death... Let me know if they sound weird. Then invert the phase on your DAC, and let me know if it's better..

(07-May-2019, 07:46 AM)agent_kith Wrote: [ -> ]
(06-May-2019, 10:44 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: [ -> ]My DAC allows me to change the phase, what should I vote?
This is a physical test. You have to play the "speaker pop" test tone, if you see the speaker moving forward, then you are "in phase", but if you see the speaker sucked in, then your system's phase is inverted.

If your system is in phase (speaker drivers are moving forward when playing the speaker pop tone), play DSoTM and Amused To Death... Let me know if they sound weird. Then invert the phase on your DAC, and let me know if it's better..

I c, Thanks! No wonder I can't catch you, cos I don't have any tracks you've mentioned. [Image: lonely.gif]

(08-May-2019, 09:26 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: [ -> ]I c, Thanks! No wonder I can't catch you, cos I don't have any tracks you've mentioned.

You can download the Speaker Pop test signals here. The filename is "Speaker Pop Signals.zip".

Dial your volume down to a good soft volume and play back this track. If your woofers "move out" as this track is played, your audio system are phase correct (in phase).

Quite a fair bit of people get this setup wrong, so it's well worth a check.

(09-May-2019, 08:19 AM)agent_kith Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-May-2019, 09:26 AM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: [ -> ]I c, Thanks! No wonder I can't catch you, cos I don't have any tracks you've mentioned.
You can download the Speaker Pop test signals here. The filename is "Speaker Pop Signals.zip".

Dial your volume down to a good loud volume and play back this track. If your woofers "move out" as this track is played, your audio system are phase correct (in phase).

Quite a fair bit of people get this setup wrong, so it's well worth a check.

Thanks a lot, Agent Kith! I found mine is Inverted Phase but the setting should be correct. Need to check where is wrong later. Now I reversed the speaker cables +/- to solve it first.

(09-May-2019, 09:55 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks a lot, Agent Kith! I found mine is Inverted Phase but the setting should be correct. Need to check where is wrong later. Now I reversed the speaker cables +/- to solve it first.

If I remember correctly, in the blog linked above, the most common issues are:

Balanced gear: Running US and Euro gear together (One is 2 hot while the other is 3 hot)
Single Ended gear: Running Conrad Johnson gear and didn't invert the phase
User error: Mixed red with black when connectinig the speaker cables on the amp side

It's also fairly common for people to mix up left and right. If you have those Chesky or Denon test albums, play the left/right channel tests to make sure everything is setup correctly.

Not the phase check tracks on these CDs are testing if both your speakers are in the same phase (this is the correct technical term for "in phase"). If one speaker is + and the other -, this is called "out of phase". So the "in phase" is in terms of the speakers.

[Image: speakerpop.png?root=collection_4&path=qu...kerpop.png]

[Image: speakerpop.png?root=collection_4&path=qu...kerpop.png]

My thread title of "In Phase" is more about "in phase" with audio track.

Just realised the link above is broken with the change to the new web server. Have updated the URL to make it work now. Will fix up the rest later this week. But for now you can read through that article to get an idea.

In Hifi, I generally believe there is no such thing as "right vs wrong", each to their own... This however is the exception.. Big Grin

With this track, the woofers must only move out, not in. Tweeters I'm not so sure (as some crossovers require it to be +180 phase to the woofers I think).

Edit: Also, I meant "good soft" volume, not loud...

(10-May-2019, 07:58 AM)agent_kith Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-May-2019, 09:55 PM)hkphantomgtr Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks a lot, Agent Kith! I found mine is Inverted Phase but the setting should be correct. Need to check where is wrong later. Now I reversed the speaker cables +/- to solve it first.
If I remember correctly, in the blog linked above, the most common issues are:
Balanced gear: Running US and Euro gear together (One is 2 hot while the other is 3 hot)

Single Ended gear: Running Conrad Johnson gear and didn't invert the phase

User error: Mixed red with black when connectinig the speaker cables on the amp side

It's also fairly common for people to mix up left and right. If you have those Chesky or Denon test albums, play the left/right channel tests to make sure everything is setup correctly.

Not the phase check tracks on these CDs are testing if both your speakers are in the same phase (this is the correct technical term for "in phase"). If one speaker is + and the other -, this is called "out of phase". So the "in phase" is in terms of the speakers.

My thread title of "In Phase" is more about "in phase" with audio track.

Just realised the link above is broken with the change to the new web server. Have updated the URL to make it work now. Will fix up the rest later this week. But for now you can read through that article to get an idea.

In Hifi, I generally believe there is no such thing as "right vs wrong", each to their own... This however is the exception.. With this track, the woofers must only move out, not in. Tweeters I'm not so sure (as some crossovers require it to be +180 phase to the woofers I think).

Edit: Also, I meant "good soft" volume, not loud...

Got it. Thank you!