Snakeoil Forums

(27-Mar-2019, 07:02 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed! In the quest for my favorite music player I can't tell you how many times I've heard the case for "1s and 0s are all the same". I guess that's true if you're listening through your TV

1 is always 1. 0 is always 0. However, music and the human emotion cannot be defined by 1s and 0s. That's something I had to understand the hard way. With music, you have to let go of your logical side, and let the primal side take control. This is easier said than done though.

(27-Mar-2019, 07:02 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, I've done a lot more reading about upmpdcli and now I'm a lot more confused so I might have to wait for someone else to figure it out. I did find what seems to be the likely answer to the upmpdcli problem but I'm not sure about the proper way to implement it. I'll probably do some trial and error testing if I get time and if I fudge things up too bad I can always reinstall

Been a bit busy and will be the next 2 days re-designing my home network with the new networking stuffs (the new additions will help me better test the network side of things). Once that is over I'd look into compiling upmpdcli for Pi that will include all the support. This way we don't need to rely on repositories.

Will also build a hot fix to make mpd v21 work again.

(27-Mar-2019, 08:07 AM)agent_kith Wrote: [ -> ]

(27-Mar-2019, 07:02 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed! In the quest for my favorite music player I can't tell you how many times I've heard the case for "1s and 0s are all the same". I guess that's true if you're listening through your TV

1 is always 1. 0 is always 0. However, music and the human emotion cannot be defined by 1s and 0s. That's something I had to understand the hard way. With music, you have to let go of your logical side, and let the primal side take control. This is easier said than done though.

(27-Mar-2019, 07:02 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, I've done a lot more reading about upmpdcli and now I'm a lot more confused so I might have to wait for someone else to figure it out. I did find what seems to be the likely answer to the upmpdcli problem but I'm not sure about the proper way to implement it. I'll probably do some trial and error testing if I get time and if I fudge things up too bad I can always reinstall

Been a bit busy and will be the next 2 days re-designing my home network with the new networking stuffs (the new additions will help me better test the network side of things). Once that is over I'd look into compiling upmpdcli for Pi that will include all the support. This way we don't need to rely on repositories.

Will also build a hot fix to make mpd v21 work again.  

I hate to be "that guy" but I was just curious if there was any progress on those couple issues for the pi. If not, no big deal. Sounds great with LMS. Just looking for something new to tinker with

(09-Apr-2019, 09:20 PM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to be "that guy" but I was just curious if there was any progress on those couple issues for the pi. If not, no big deal. Sounds great with LMS. Just looking for something new to tinker with  

Please be that guy.. ..

The Pi issues is mpd 0.21.x not working? And missing upmpdcli packages? Both are fixed and will be in U4 (one more ticket to do before it's released). Can you look at this roadmap and let me know if I missed anything? Thanks.

(10-Apr-2019, 08:08 AM)agent_kith Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-Apr-2019, 09:20 PM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to be "that guy" but I was just curious if there was any progress on those couple issues for the pi. If not, no big deal. Sounds great with LMS. Just looking for something new to tinker with  

Please be that guy.. ..

The Pi issues is mpd 0.21.x not working? And missing upmpdcli packages? Both are fixed and will be in U4 (one more ticket to do before it's released). Can you look at this roadmap and let me know if I missed anything? Thanks.   

Looks like you're on top of it  Thanks again!

By the way, I'm sure we've all been there, but before using your software I got to that point where I thought I had run my system to its logical limit without starting to spend more (much more) money, and time.

This seemingly never ending quest to "chase the high" of that sound (or drug as I like to think of it) that makes your jaw drop. That sound that makes your eyes well up by how truly beautiful a well recorded vocal can sound, with a natural ambience that fills the room like the singer (and their concert hall) is right there in front of you, all around you. How the hair on the back of your neck can stand at attention by how real a particular sound or instrument is relayed through this equipment that has been accumulated over the years. That thought that recognizes the raw genius of a recording that you heard hundreds of times but continue to find new information, new nuances time and time again.

Thank you for breathing new life into my gear and reviving that emotion that got me hooked on this hobby in the first place.

(11-Apr-2019, 08:18 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like you're on top of it  Thanks again!

It's more like "I'm slowly getting there". Unfortunately I only get around 2 hours a day to work on Snakeoil (dev, test, support, etc) and progress is slow. Really slow. On hindsight I'm really glad I called this project Snakeoil. This shunned a lot of audiophiles away and that really helped.

 

(11-Apr-2019, 08:18 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, I'm sure we've all been there, but before using your software I got to that point where I thought I had run my system to its logical limit without starting to spend more (much more) money, and time.

This seemingly never ending quest to "chase the high" of that sound (or drug as I like to think of it) that makes your jaw drop. That sound that makes your eyes well up by how truly beautiful a well recorded vocal can sound, with a natural ambience that fills the room like the singer (and their concert hall) is right there in front of you, all around you. How the hair on the back of your neck can stand at attention by how real a particular sound or instrument is relayed through this equipment that has been accumulated over the years. That thought that recognizes the raw genius of a recording that you heard hundreds of times but continue to find new information, new nuances time and time again.

Thank you for breathing new life into my gear and reviving that emotion that got me hooked on this hobby in the first place. 

That is the hallmarks of a great system!

I would love to be able to hear that some day. Very few systems are actually capable of doing what you described. If you havn't already, do try Roger Waters - Amused to death (CD, I havn't tried the SACD yet). That little boy will really creep you out.

The next steps is to continue to push for better clarity, better focus, better timbre, etc without affecting that pin point imaging. They key is to always make those speakers disappear into the room, and that's when the recording space takes shape.

At this point - different power cables, interconnects, isolation strategies, power tweaks, etc comes into play.

This absolutely requires the human touch, skilled human touch. You cannot replace this with machines. You cannot measure these effects. In my previous job, I've spent ten years doing oceanography - a job that paid for my house, my car, my hifi, and my ex-lifestyle . I used to work with some of the brightest in the industry, we can measure a lot of things in the world, but you can't measure hifi.

The reason is simple - the whole point of a stereo setup is to create an illusion. Machines are incapable of recognising that illusion. Articles like this peeves me to no end. Really? I can use the data from ocean measurements, model it to know when a cyclone will form. I can estimate wind speeds, ocean swells, even project some potential paths the storm will take. All with a certain degree of accuracy.

But what can I do with these hifi measurements? There's absolutely no derivatives of value that can come off these hifi measurements! Unfortunately audiophiles took these charts hook, like and sinker.

When we tell people a potential devastating cyclone could kill you, a potential tsunami is coming, so please take the necessary precautions and take cover. There are people who ignores us and stayed behind, because they think if we were wrong before, we could be wrong about this latest prediction now .

So in this world - people think weather measurements (and it's predictions) can be wrong, but audio measurements are always right. These people, who called themselves objectivists, and brand people who aren't like them subjectivists.. Well, to me they are people who stayed behind when the forecasters are saying a cyclone is coming, or a bushfire is coming your way...

The modernist audiophile is trying to take the human out of the hifi equation (and they justify their methods using pseudo science).  And blind testing - the golden rule for objective audiophiles? Good luck on that if you have to rely on statistical analysis to make your point. Statistics is all about probability, it's not aboslute.

1 + 1 is absolute. You can use statistics to predict how many people can get that answer wrong, but the answer of 1+1 is always going to be 2 (if we rely on our definitions of mathematics).

This project will hopefully make people understand, enjoy and re-discover what hifi is all about - and they'll be enjoying this hobby from the heart.

Yes, I have definitely taken you guys out of your comfort zone by calling this project Snakeoil. But, hopefully I have also convinced you guys with your own music that it's better to just listen to your own heart (and feel your own body hair) instead.

PS: People overlooking (discarding) the human factor is not restricted to hifi. It happens in all fields. e.g. Look at all those bio security implemented in mobile phones (face recognition, finger printing, etc). Add how the first generation can be easily overcomed (e.g. by a photocopy, a 3D printer, etc).

Snakeoil's motto - "Music, your Way", "Designed by us, defined by you". In this project, we stressed the importance of the audiophile. The human factor, this always have to be included in the hifi equation.

I'dd get off my soap box now ..

Quote:do try Roger Waters - Amused to death

Thanks for that   listening now....

I recall being at an industry demo of the (then newly released) Mirage M1's and hearing their demo of Roger Waters 'Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking'...

We bought the cd and for months afterwards would shout out in the store "I'm going to Wyoming !" when we thought that cd was apt for a demo system.

(Note, I don't own and never wanted to... Mirage....   Shahinian is my pleasure   )

Listening to now....  Jacques Loussier - Play Bach.... the Fugue has me in thrall...

Can't believe this artist was born the same year as my father !  

Jacques world was a much bigger place than my humble mechanic forebear's oeuvre...

(11-Apr-2019, 10:11 AM)agent_kith Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-Apr-2019, 08:18 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like you're on top of it  Thanks again!

It's more like "I'm slowly getting there". Unfortunately I only get around 2 hours a day to work on Snakeoil (dev, test, support, etc) and progress is slow. Really slow. On hindsight I'm really glad I called this project Snakeoil. This shunned a lot of audiophiles away and that really helped.

 

(11-Apr-2019, 08:18 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]By the way, I'm sure we've all been there, but before using your software I got to that point where I thought I had run my system to its logical limit without starting to spend more (much more) money, and time.

This seemingly never ending quest to "chase the high" of that sound (or drug as I like to think of it) that makes your jaw drop. That sound that makes your eyes well up by how truly beautiful a well recorded vocal can sound, with a natural ambience that fills the room like the singer (and their concert hall) is right there in front of you, all around you. How the hair on the back of your neck can stand at attention by how real a particular sound or instrument is relayed through this equipment that has been accumulated over the years. That thought that recognizes the raw genius of a recording that you heard hundreds of times but continue to find new information, new nuances time and time again.

Thank you for breathing new life into my gear and reviving that emotion that got me hooked on this hobby in the first place. 

That is the hallmarks of a great system!

I would love to be able to hear that some day. Very few systems are actually capable of doing what you described. If you havn't already, do try Roger Waters - Amused to death (CD, I havn't tried the SACD yet). That little boy will really creep you out.

The next steps is to continue to push for better clarity, better focus, better timbre, etc without affecting that pin point imaging. They key is to always make those speakers disappear into the room, and that's when the recording space takes shape.

At this point - different power cables, interconnects, isolation strategies, power tweaks, etc comes into play.

This absolutely requires the human touch, skilled human touch. You cannot replace this with machines. You cannot measure these effects. In my previous job, I've spent ten years doing oceanography - a job that paid for my house, my car, my hifi, and my ex-lifestyle . I used to work with some of the brightest in the industry, we can measure a lot of things in the world, but you can't measure hifi.

The reason is simple - the whole point of a stereo setup is to create an illusion. Machines are incapable of recognising that illusion. Articles like this peeves me to no end. Really? I can use the data from ocean measurements, model it to know when a cyclone will form. I can estimate wind speeds, ocean swells, even project some potential paths the storm will take. All with a certain degree of accuracy.

But what can I do with these hifi measurements? There's absolutely no derivatives of value that can come off these hifi measurements! Unfortunately audiophiles took these charts hook, like and sinker.

When we tell people a potential devastating cyclone could kill you, a potential tsunami is coming, so please take the necessary precautions and take cover. There are people who ignores us and stayed behind, because they think if we were wrong before, we could be wrong about this latest prediction now .

So in this world - people think weather measurements (and it's predictions) can be wrong, but audio measurements are always right. These people, who called themselves objectivists, and brand people who aren't like them subjectivists.. Well, to me they are people who stayed behind when the forecasters are saying a cyclone is coming, or a bushfire is coming your way...

The modernist audiophile is trying to take the human out of the hifi equation (and they justify their methods using pseudo science).  And blind testing - the golden rule for objective audiophiles? Good luck on that if you have to rely on statistical analysis to make your point. Statistics is all about probability, it's not aboslute.

1 + 1 is absolute. You can use statistics to predict how many people can get that answer wrong, but the answer of 1+1 is always going to be 2 (if we rely on our definitions of mathematics).

This project will hopefully make people understand, enjoy and re-discover what hifi is all about - and they'll be enjoying this hobby from the heart.

Yes, I have definitely taken you guys out of your comfort zone by calling this project Snakeoil. But, hopefully I have also convinced you guys with your own music that it's better to just listen to your own heart (and feel your own body hair) instead.

PS: People overlooking (discarding) the human factor is not restricted to hifi. It happens in all fields. e.g. Look at all those bio security implemented in mobile phones (face recognition, finger printing, etc). Add how the first generation can be easily overcomed (e.g. by a photocopy, a 3D printer, etc).

Snakeoil's motto - "Music, your Way", "Designed by us, defined by you". In this project, we stressed the importance of the audiophile. The human factor, this always have to be included in the hifi equation.

I'dd get off my soap box now .. 

Well said, thanks for your sharing! 

Tried "Amused to Death", the song, not the whole album and yeah, definitely sounds great! That song should come with a volume warning  I felt like that old Maxell commercial when the dynamics kicked in!




Anyway, I just realized that not only did I hijack this thread but all my problems related to this post are fixed so assuming the OP is ok with it you might be able to mark this one solved, being in the "support and troubleshooting" forum and all.

---

By the way, I agree 100% about the emotional hooks to music. I think that might be what differentiates me from my wife for instance. I just can't seem to get her into the hobby. She seems more annoyed than anything when I "force" her to listen to some especially good sounding piece of music. She just says "Yeah honey, sounds great. Ready to watch TV?" 

(27-Apr-2019, 09:05 AM)mkysimes Wrote: [ -> ]She seems more annoyed than anything when I "force" her to listen to some especially good sounding piece of music. She just says "Yeah honey, sounds great. Ready to watch TV?"   

Lol. Keep playing, eventually she'll wander in and listen together. Maybe even do a singalong.