[SOLVED] Native DSD on Snakeoil

[JD1]

With Roon, it was my understanding that the option to select "native DSD" would appear if Roon detects that the DAC can handle native DSD. No such option presents for either the Klein DAC or my DAC when using Roon on Snakeoil.

Maybe it is a Snakeoil issue or maybe some DACs don't advertise their native DSD abilities to any server. A way to force native DSD would be great.

mpd-dsd-rt is the way to force.. But havn't tried it in a while.

Do you know if Klein or your Mola mola uses XMOS?

Perhaps this is worth adding to Snakeoil. 

Mola Mola uses XMOS. Actually one that can handle up to 768k; enough for 4xDSD via DoP; but Linux computers had problems when it advertised its max sample rate as 768k so they modded it to report max 384k to servers. That is enough for native 4xDSD or DoP 2xDSD.

I've done so much reading but can't understand most of it. It seems that Linux software developers add separate support for different brands of DAC...as per your link. I think SOtM invite customers to have their DAC models included...the customer sends to SOtM the DAC info page shown within their Linux OS interface when their SOtM renderer is connected to their DAC. I have no idea how they use that info to mod their FW to include support for native DSD of a new DAC model.

[agent_kith]

Mola Mola uses XMOS. Actually one that can handle up to 768k; enough for 4xDSD via DoP; but Linux computers had problems when it advertised its max sample rate as 768k so they modded it to report max 384k to servers. That is enough for native 4xDSD or DoP 2xDSD.

Not entirely sure if DoP can handle 4xDSD (How many MHz is that again?). If memory serves DoP is max up to 2xDSD only but could be wrong on that.
 

I've done so much reading but can't understand most of it. It seems that Linux software developers add separate support for different brands of DAC...as per your link. I think SOtM invite customers to have their DAC models included...the customer sends to SOtM the DAC info page shown within their Linux OS interface when their SOtM renderer is connected to their DAC. I have no idea how they use that info to mod their FW to include support for native DSD of a new DAC model. 

SOtM uses MPD v19 (with the Jurgen patch), i.e. a version of mpd-dsd-rt I think. See here for source code: Link. I'm guessing you'd find out how they do it in that rpm file.

Edit: TotalDAC-1... Using mpd v17.6, because "it sounds better"..   Glad I'm now not the only guy who thinks that.. If memory serves, MPD-20 ain't no slouch now, will have to do a proper re-evaluation of mpd v17 against v20 some time to re-access.

[agent_kith]

Admittedly I wasn't that enthusastic about native DSD. But @JD1 is persistent, and thanks to him patiently nuding me on, giving me pointers along the way, he made me realise native DSD is only supported by a few devices by default. I am now keeping track of it here.

Still couldn't get his DAC to work, but at least the proof of concept code works with the XDuoo XD-05.
 

Once JD1's DAC is working, I'd release the kernel, and the source (to make it GPL compliant).

Until then, if you have a native DSD capable DAC, and want to join the test, please generate a diagnostic file and send it to my email address: agent_kith 'at' snakeoil-os.net (Replace 'at' with @).
Benefits of native DSD?

1. Potentially resolve POP noises some DACs have (as it's no longer DSD wrapped in PCM format)
   
2. Potentially less overhead (sent as true bitstream)
   
3. Probably will support DSD256 and DSD512 as it's no longer constrained by PCM bit rates
   
4. Potentially will make you feel the AQ is better because it's native DSD.
   

Now my focus is still trying to get BlindTesting complete so appreciate your patience with getting native DSD to work for your DAC.

[JD1]

Success!  

With the new kernel, I have native DSD working into my Mola Mola Makua DAC.

I can now play DSD256, whereas I was limited to DSD128 with DoP.  So far, I have used it with MPDv20, Roon Server and Squeezelite R2. Only the latter required an extra setting in ALSA Config.

Many thanks to Agent Kith for adding this feature.

JD

[agent_kith]

I can now play DSD256, whereas I was limited to DSD128 with DoP.  So far, I have used it with MPDv20, Roon Server and Squeezelite R2. Only the latter required an extra setting in ALSA Config.

Any DSD512 to test?

[JD1]

I can now play DSD256, whereas I was limited to DSD128 with DoP.  So far, I have used it with MPDv20, Roon Server and Squeezelite R2. Only the latter required an extra setting in ALSA Config.

Any DSD512 to test? 

To get that working, you'd need to come up with another fix   .

The XMOS in my DAC can handle up to 768 kHz; enough for DSD512 BUT no Linux system seemed to recognise the DAC when it advertised that true max sample rate. The manufacturers had to make a modified version of their FW; special for Linux servers; so that the DAC presents its max sample rate as 384 kHz.

Why would Linux refuse to handshake with a DAC because it advertises 768 kHz?

[agent_kith]

To get that working, you'd need to come up with another fix   .

The XMOS in my DAC can handle up to 768 kHz; enough for DSD512 BUT no Linux system seemed to recognise the DAC when it advertised that true max sample rate. The manufacturers had to make a modified version of their FW; special for Linux servers; so that the DAC presents its max sample rate as 384 kHz.

Why would Linux refuse to handshake with a DAC because it advertises 768 kHz? 

I believe 768 kHz is not part of the USB standard? Hopefully when the long weekend is here i can dig further.

[JD1]

Agent Kith, I have a request please.

I installed a FW update in my Mola Mola Makua DAC and it has changed its XMOS ID so now native DSD no longer works.

The new XMOS ID is  20b1:3089 XMOS Ltd
Could you please add this; connecting to Altset 3; in the nativeDSD kernel changes?

Thanks kindly,
JD

---

Before I forget (again) the command I used to get DAC info is;
cat /proc/asound/card0/stream0

...which gave me the following:
MolaMola MolaMola USB Audio 2.0 at usb-0000:01:00.0-1.1.1, high speed : USB Audio Playback:  Status: Stop  Interface    
Altset 1    Format: S32_LE    Channels: 2    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
Data packet interval: 125 us Interface 1   
Altset 2    Format: S16_LE   Channels: 2   Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
Data packet interval: 125 us  Interface 1   
Altset 3    Format: SPECIAL    Channels: 2   Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)   Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000
Data packet interval: 125 us

From this, AK worked out to use Altset 3 for native DSD. Actually, this read-out is after installing the new FW in my DAC and it shows that it can now accept up to 768k input (previously max of 384k).

For the DAC's new XMOS ID, I used the command lsusb to see it had changed...
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0781:5591 SanDisk Corp. 
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 005: ID 04d8:ff89 Microchip Technology, Inc. 
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 20b1:3089 XMOS Ltd 
Bus 003 Device 003: ID 0424:2512 Standard Microsystems Corp. USB 2.0 Hub
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 05e3:0610 Genesys Logic, Inc. 4-port hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

Of interest, when I use Roon Server on Snakeoil, it now detects that my DAC can go to 768k and I can now use DoP for DSD256 with Roon Server...but not with LMS/Squeezelite. Don't know why.




Cheers,
JD

[agent_kith]

From this, AK worked out to use Altset 3 for native DSD. Actually, this read-out is after installing the new FW in my DAC and it shows that it can now accept up to 768k input (previously max of 384k).

Was just about to say that.. It'd be the first known 768 kHz or higher DAC to test in Snakeoil...

Hopefully I'd be able to run through the new kernel later today (if not tomorrow).. Been a somewhat frustrating day, so am just going to take a light nap first before doing anything next..

[JD1]

Got DSD256 working via DoP in Squeezelite by telling it the max sample rate in Options via  -r 44100-768000