SQ difference - Raspberry Pi vs x86_64?

[justme]

Can anyone share their thoughts on the potential SQ difference between running Snakeoil on a RPi5 versus a lower end x86_64 machine (for example, something like an N100 eg. the Minix Z100 fanless: Intel N100, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD)? I know some people have found the x86_64 is more resolving but not sure if that applies at the lower end.

I have Snakeoil running on a RPi5 8GB with passive case at the moment (sounds great) and need a second inexpensive unit for a different property so thought I would use an x86_64 for comparison to see if that improves things even further. The RPi is running Raspberry Pi OS Lite but I'll use Ubuntu Pro RTK on the miniPC which I understand should change things up regardless.

There's also other units in the A$400-500 range like the Beelink EQR5 Ryzen 5 5650U (16GB RAM, 500GB SSD) but I'm unsure how much it would improve SQ over something like the Minix (plus the fan is a complication).

I'm currently using LMS+Squeezelite on the RPi. Still experimenting with cpuset and RAM Disk.

Grateful for any feedback or advice.

[hkphantomgtr]

Can anyone share their thoughts on the potential SQ difference between running Snakeoil on a RPi5 versus a lower end x86_64 machine (for example, something like an N100 eg. the Minix Z100 fanless: Intel N100, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD)? I know some people have found the x86_64 is more resolving but not sure if that applies at the lower end.

I have Snakeoil running on a RPi5 8GB with passive case at the moment (sounds great) and need a second inexpensive unit for a different property so thought I would use an x86_64 for comparison to see if that improves things even further. The RPi is running Raspberry Pi OS Lite but I'll use Ubuntu Pro RTK on the miniPC which I understand should change things up regardless.

There's also other units in the A$400-500 range like the Beelink EQR5 Ryzen 5 5650U (16GB RAM, 500GB SSD) but I'm unsure how much it would improve SQ over something like the Minix (plus the fan is a complication).

I'm currently using LMS+Squeezelite on the RPi. Still experimenting with cpuset and RAM Disk.

Grateful for any feedback or advice.

Hi, pal,

Look, in my experience and some of my closer hifi buddies experience,  x86_64 DOES make better sounds, esp for those hi res music files.  Yet, obviously, the difference in cost is totally not proportional to the sonic improvement at all. 
If you can find some fanless x86_64 that can be powered by LPS at the cost close to pi5, I think just give it a shot.  Happy Hunting! 

[Bromf]

An HP thinclient (HP-t620 or t620Plus if you want to use PCIE cards) is more than adequate. An ssd of 16Gb and 4 or more GB of ram and it will be fine.
You can pick those up for peanuts ex-lease via any commercial recycler.

The 620 is fanless and comes in 2 versions, dual or quad core. The 620Plus are quadcore.

The biggest advantage (other than price vs Pi) is options for expansion.

https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/t620/

[hkphantomgtr]

@justme FYI, I've built something a bit crazy to test the sonic performance of Pi 4 in past. 
Working on new Snakeoil release - 1.3.x (Codename Measurements)

[Snoopy8]

I have 2 Intel NUC Element, 1 with Intel® Core™ i3-8145U CPU @ 2.10GHz and another with 11th Gen Intel® Core™ i7-1165G7 @ 2.80GHz.  Also a Pi5 and a Mercury V2 streamer (CM4).  All have passive cases, run off Gieseler linear power supplies. Other than the Mercury with S/DIF outputs, all the others use USB.

Other than the room, the biggest influence on SQ is the O/S and @justme, you have come to the right place.  Then, linear power supply and various software tweaks including kernel, CPUset, Ramdisk etc.. My opinions using SnakeOil (SO) as the base

• Most of the popular Pi O/S sound worse than SO
  
• No difference between a Core i3 and 11th Gen i7 using the same software (but I have a special i7 kernel which makes a difference, which I hope AK can use to commercialize SO one day???).  Had similar findings with other NUCs, so using a low powered box did not make a difference for me
  
• NUC is slightly ahead of the Pi5 but had to look for it; in other words, the SQ difference is not night and day,
  
• Pi5 better than Pi4, based on Mercury which use the compute module CM4
  

Rather than trying to find an Intel or AMD box, suggest getting another Pi5.  It is cheaper and so much easier to put together. And backing up, changing & trying things is easy using micoSD cards. (I use Clonezilla to backup and restore NUC trials and tribulations).

To improve the Pi5, suggest getting a linear power supply or run off battery.  I was surprised that running separate boxes for LMS and Squeezelite made a difference (thank you to @hkphantomgtr).  And there is a good chance that AK will further improve things...

p/s have parked aside the influence of the room and the use of DSP to improve things.  This is a huge topic that should be discussed separately...

[Bromf]

My go-to linear supply is Salas L-Adapter that can be configured for Pi and others (I use one on an HP Thinclient running RME PCIE board for LP ripping)

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threa...er.336685/

https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threa...st-5944782

https://rme-audio.de/hdspe-aio.html

[justme]

@hkphantomgtr @Bromf @Snoopy8 Thanks so much for your replies, it has been really helpful! I will give it some further thought and research

[skel]

I' am a great fan of the  x86_64 machines of Shuttle. Just bought the DS50U (CPU Intel Celeron 7305, 250 Euro) which had much better SQ than the more faster machine DS50U3 with i3 CPU. Since these machines work with 12V I use a normal car battery for power. Just compared it to a commercial product for 11000 Euros (K41 from Antipodes Audio) and my machine sound clear better with SO 1.4, Ubuntu 24.04 Server RT-kernel and Minimserver or Lyrionmusicserver with UPnP Bridge. Of course quite optimized LAN....

[Snoopy8]

I' am a great fan of the  x86_64 machines of Shuttle. Just bought the DS50U (CPU Intel Celeron 7305, 250 Euro) which had much better SQ than the more faster machine DS50U3 with i3 CPU. 

Interesting... . Have you tried the Pi5, which is much cheaper? 
 

Just compared it to a commercial product for 11000 Euros (K41 from Antipodes Audio) and my machine sound clear better with SO 1.4, Ubuntu 24.04 Server RT-kernel and Minimserver or Lyrionmusicserver with UPnP Bridge. 

My Pi5 with Ubuntu 22.04 and SO1.3 beat the Antipodes S30, to my ears.   But, my friend still preferred the S30 because it was closer to what he was used to.

[agent_kith]

I'm hoping somewhere/someone will build a dedicated audio board with support for CM5. If properly designed and implemented it could beat x86_64 in theory (This is more a guess though).

Reckon CM4 is still a bit bottlenecked, but CM5 might finally be the answer? CM5 is supposed to be pin compatible with CM4, and should just be a drop in replacement.. Hopefully somebody can try and see if CM5 is the missing piece to the puzzle.

The thing I am unsure is - does x86_64 sound better because that's my primary focus? Perhaps some audio maker can donate a decent CM5 based board for me to play with and I can attempt to see what tweaks are available in software.