Snakeoil Music server & Snakeoil its own endpoint

[hkphantomgtr]

As I found that in my setup, even my fanless NUC for ROON is highly modified with a good LPS directly attached to it, I found after using a pi as bridge https://www.snakeoil-os.net/forums/threa...ml#pid6802, the sound is much different (to my ear is much better in those aspects I understand).  In my understanding that, Roon bridge collects data from server and stored several seconds of music data as buffer in ram, and then output to the USB or whatever digital output.  As the process is rather straight forward and with such data buffer in ram, then the jitter and latency will be the lowest value in that piece of hardware (ie. pi in this topic).

I wonder, can Snakeoil OS do the same thing?  I mean, e.g. Snakeoil music server (whatever the player is), and then a Snakeoil bridge.  Of course, maybe it can be set as an option to enable/disable, to minimize the background process in the host. 

[agent_kith]

Do not understand the question. bridge as in a network bridge? or as a endpoint playback device (i.e. just play music?), in the line of the NAA bridge?

If the latter technically it can already be done. If using LMS as the media server you can setup Snakeoil as just a player (i.e. runs only Squeezelite).

Similarly you can do so with MPD, with upmpdcli queuing up a playlist from a remote source. 

This is kind of what I'm doing now. I have LMS running in a LXC container in something called a Promox cluster. Then my player just runs Squeezelite.

[uglymusic]

<snip> 

This is kind of what I'm doing now. I have LMS running in a LXC container in something called a Promox cluster. Then my player just runs Squeezelite.

I'm surprised all those processes running on your server don't mess up your SQ. Apparently not. Or you wouldn't do it. 

[agent_kith]

I'm surprised all those processes running on your server don't mess up your SQ. Apparently not. Or you wouldn't do it. 

It's more a compromise. Having LMS running on the server means it will be running 24/7, and I still have access to my music when my music computer isn't turned on.

Having said that, in future as I get more and more Raspberry Pi 5s, I might move one of the Pi 4 to be a dedicated LMS unit.

[hkphantomgtr]

Do not understand the question. bridge as in a network bridge? or as a endpoint playback device (i.e. just play music?), in the line of the NAA bridge?

If the latter technically it can already be done. If using LMS as the media server you can setup Snakeoil as just a player (i.e. runs only Squeezelite).

Similarly you can do so with MPD, with upmpdcli queuing up a playlist from a remote source. 

This is kind of what I'm doing now. I have LMS running in a LXC container in something called a Promox cluster. Then my player just runs Squeezelite.

I'm sorry for my poor wording.  I mean endpoint playback device.  I'm thinking is it feasible (theoretically) that, Snakeoil and MPD (also convolution dsp in future?) run in a machine, and then output the processed data to an endpoint (e.g. Raspberry Pi) for USB output or whatever digital format. 

I suspect that,
1) as the kernel workload for such pi endpoint is very specific, and tiny, the system will be more efficient and the latency will be at minimum level;
2) the workload for endpoint is so much simpler, mainly receiving data from network, and then buffer it in local memory, and then output digitally, that reduce related jitter and latency to minimum;
3) LPS for Pi is much simpler, easier and economic in comparing to a NUC or other form of PC;
4) With an endpoint, probably we can decrease the hardware requirement for the music server (e.g. modified NUC, or other fanless PC), that make the CAS much more cost effective;
5) Hopefully, eventually, such combo makes CAS more affordable, simpler, but eventually the sound quality is even better and enjoyable than before.

[uglymusic]

I'm surprised all those processes running on your server don't mess up your SQ. Apparently not. Or you wouldn't do it. 

It's more a compromise. Having LMS running on the server means it will be running 24/7, and I still have access to my music when my music computer isn't turned on.

Having said that, in future as I get more and more Raspberry Pi 5s, I might move one of the Pi 4 to be a dedicated LMS unit.

Yeah. Everything's a compromise, isn't it? Without infinite funds or infinite time.

My RPi 5, which didn't arrive yesterday as promised, is destined for server duties.

[Snoopy8]

It has taken some time, but I finally got to test the difference between running LMS and Squeezelite on 1 box versus running LMS on 1 box and Squeezelite on a second box.  Running on 2 boxes produced a noticeable quieter background, with better detail.  Thank you @hkphantomgtr for suggesting this.

For reference, LMS 8.4.1 running on my Mercury V2 Streamer (CM4) with Bookworm and Squeezelite on Intel NUC with Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS.  Both running SO 1.3 and with my own real time kernels.  Before someone asks, the more powerful NUC sounds better than the Mercury, hence it is the end point.

[hkphantomgtr]

It has taken some time, but I finally got to test the difference between running LMS and Squeezelite on 1 box versus running LMS on 1 box and Squeezelite on a second box.  Running on 2 boxes produced a noticeable quieter background, with better detail.  Thank you @hkphantomgtr for suggesting this.

For reference, LMS 8.4.1 running on my Mercury V2 Streamer (CM4) with Bookworm and Squeezelite on Intel NUC with Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS.  Both running SO 1.3 and with my own real time kernels.  Before someone asks, the more powerful NUC sounds better than the Mercury, hence it is the end point.

Did you try the effect of different clocksources in the endpoint NUC, ie TSC vs Hpet?

[Snoopy8]

Did you try the effect of different clocksources in the endpoint NUC, ie TSC vs Hpet?

Do not have Hpet on my new NUC (a different version called Element). Tried Hpet on old NUC a few years ago, and did not like it.

[Snoopy8]

And further experiments suggests that a Pi5 is better than a CM4 (Mercury V2 Streamer) to run LMS 8.5.2. Both are on Bookworm running SO 1.3.1 and with my own real time kernel.  Powered by the same linear power supply. Squeezelite R2 (version 2) on Intel NUC with Ubuntu 22.04.3 LTS, SnakeOil 1.3.1, own real time kernel.

In conclusion, a separate server (LMS) and end point (Squeezelite) can improve SQ.  The quality of both the server and end point also matter.